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Wanganui hui

1 February 2005

1. Karakia/ Mihimihi (Gerrard Albert/Heemi Takarangi).

2. Introductions

Dougal Morrison, Matthew Hall (Ministry for Economic Development); George Ria, Rebecca Martel (Ministry of Agriculture & Forestry); Suzanne Doig (Te Puni Kōkiri); Livia Hollins (Ministry for the Environment); Willie and Linda Te Aho (Facilitator and minute secretary - Indigenous Corporate Solutions Limited).

3. Introductions of those in attendance

4. Presentation

4.1 Background - Māori Reference Group, and the various Ministries represented

4.2 Objectives:

  • Listen and learn
  • Obtain Feedback on whakaaro - 'Ki uta ki tai'

4.3 The importance of water and values was acknowledged.

Question: (Manu Metekingi) what does the programme cover - waterflows on top of the ground or springs, or both?

Response: All freshwater, including mineral water, is covered by the programme

4.4 The discussion today will be recorded and fed back to Ministers and will be made publicly available.

4.5 Explanation of Water Programme of Action (Dougal Morrison):

  • Water Allocation - this involves the taking of water from rivers, lakes and bores - and deciding who can take and for what uses. There is not enough water to go around (eg Canterbury). Conflicting desires for water use need to be balanced - some want to take water, while others want water to be left alone. Prioritising is necessary - rather than continuing with the current 'first in first served' process.
  • Nationally important water bodies -identifying those bodies that are especially important for certain reasons. Dougal noted advice that cultural values may not necessarily be national values.
  • Water quality is declining -Dougal acknowledged that declining water quality is a threat to Mahinga kai.

4.6 Barney Haami

Is the Government proactively looking at sources of power other than electricity instead of taking fresh water from our rivers? Are they making the best use of the water they are already taking?

Response from Dougal - The Government is conscious of these issues, and the priority for energy generation from renewable resources including wind power and smaller hydro schemes, new gas sources, and coal. Nuclear generation is not an option being investigated.

4.7 Rebecca Martel continued with the second part of the presentation:

  • The closing date for formal submissions is 18 March 2005.
  • The key question that is being posed is: Have we got our water management system right?

The programme looks at improving the system we have as well as exploring some new ideas such as trading water rights - is this a good idea?

  • Working together - this is an outcome that is aspired to.
    • Eg raising awareness; enhancing Māori participation, we are aware that some local government bodies haven't been listening, and some ideas towards addressing this have been put forward

4.8. Suzanne Doig (TPK)

In building a better water management system, it is acknowledged that Māori participation is not usually what it should be - barriers exist such as the attitudes of some councils, poor relationships, capacity and capability issues (eg funding).

Te Puni Kōkiri is seeking ideas about how these issues can be addressed. TPK have talked with the Māori reference group and come up with ideas such as more guidance from Central Government to Regional councils.

5. Discussion

5.1. Barney Haami

Are you encouraging Māori participation or iwi participation?

Response from Suzanne: we are looking at enhancing the participation of iwi, hapū, and tangata whenua.

5.2 Mariana Waitai

'Enhancing Māori Participation' - iwi expect government to come and seek permission to do things particularly on anything to do with the river (from the maunga to the sea), come and talk with iwi and hapū, rather than coming to say what you are going to do and what are your whakaaro?

That is what will help, being able to deal with that mindset.

Mariana referred to Genesis and the impact on the Tupuna awa and the people: We, the iwi, have told Government time and time again that we want our water levels back, but we have been told that it is in the national importance to continue the status quo. Genesis has lodged an appeal regarding their taking, and the Government still supports that business as the Government is the sole shareholder.

5.3. Eddie Ratana

Why aren't the farmers and the foresters here so that we can interact with them? The pine trees have ruined our puna. The growth of trees has effects on lakes - these issues need to be researched. The water in our puna has warmed - as a result of the root system and that has an impact on our puna.

Willie Te Aho explained that there are other public hui, where the farmers and foresters will be in attendance. The whānau are welcome to attend those hui as well.

5.4. Mike Potaka

Mike spoke of the impacts on the water as a result of farming cattle. Some areas must be conserved, in some places crayfish have disappeared.

5.5. Rebecca Martel

Rebecca continued with the presentation by introducing ideas regarding the provision of more tools eg prioritising and/or comparing consents, auctioning or tendering rights.

5.6. Manu Metekingi

We have concerns about government appointees coming to discuss something that is already set in motion. In our experience we used bores and the law changed preventing us from using it. So rather than contribute to some overall scheme, we want this dealt with locally, because what we say here may not be applicable to other places.

As Māori farmers, we made sure that natural filters such as scrub remained on the land to protect waterways. The crayfish is now ruined. Financial obligations have been placed on farmers that require them to use products like fertilisers to increase productivity

Manu is unhappy with the lack of information provided prior to the hui: We need to have more breathing space to give submissions, rather than taking what is said today as gospel from this area.

As one of the first people to settle this area, and it is reflected in our songs, from the mountains to the sea, we are the mountain and the river is we.

5.7. Chris Shenton

Chris noted that Regional Councils and District Councils want their own autonomy, and forecasted that a bureaucratic nightmare would result from what is being proposed.

The issue of resourcing Māori to participate effectively is a key matter for us.

How are all the different departments working together? A direct resourcing approach needs to be considered as an option - people determining priorities for using resources.

Dougal (response) The Ministry for Economic Development has received some feedback from Regional councils that they would like clearer guidance, but Dougal agrees that there will be issues about bureaucracy.

5.8. Dardi Metekingi

Appreciates what has been proposed as there are some benefits. However there is a concern about the Māori Reference Group not coming around to talk to Māori to get a feel for the proposal.

Relationship between Crown and Māori - the pattern has always been that we are involved from the tail end, not from the start and we don't want to repeat that pattern. Today we have been called in at the last minute, again. We are acting voluntarily, because we are concerned about our river. The protection of our awa and other waters are very important to us as a people.

5.9. Nancy Tuaine

There are huge issues that we are expected to respond to every day - changes to the Resource Management Act, this Water Programme of Action, and at the same time we are still in negotiations with the Crown with regard to our River Claim.

The Water Programme of Action and the Resource Management Act are interrelated. You ask us to consider National interest? Our concerns are that many of our food sources and puna/bores have been lost all along our river - all in the name of the 'National Interest'.

The run-off into our tributaries is polluting our awa, and yet here we are expected to respond to this water programme of action. In our history we have practised protection, and yet we are prevented from continuing to do so.

Consultation is a weak word, we are over-consulted, that is why there is no one here. We have tried to encourage people to come and we have sent out many pānui. The issues being presented today are huge, and complex. We are not resourced to be consulted, so we cannot always take up opportunities for consultation. We want to be included at the front end -to be part of putting this public document together - there is nothing in the document that reflects Wanganui. We want to be properly resourced to participate effectively.

Nancy supports Mariana, in terms of an expectation of being asked, of being included. We want to work together. But we are treated as subservient. There is no power when someone else decides how much of our korero is taken on. We want to be the drafters of policy. We have the experience of hundreds of years.

The recent Environment Court decision restricting Genesis' consent to 10 years was the first favourable decision for us for many years, and yet now it is being appealed. Genesis makes millions of dollars of profits and has the funds to take this issue further to the High Court and beyond. How can we fight this animal?

Nancy attended a conference in Australia last year on freshwater and heard presentations about trading water rights, and warned that we need to be aware of the uncertainties regarding allocation of a natural resource. She saw pictures of farmers with water rights storing the water in man-made lakes on their lands.

We are conscious of the need to protect these resources for the future. The Government does not do enough to educate people around water usage. If irrigators are allowed to take water, and then store it to be used later, is this the most efficient use of water? There needs to be more focus on education.

Dougal questions: do you have any ideas for more inclusive working together.

Nancy - we need to share funding and allow us to participate equally. Let's go halves on Whanganui Water Catchment Authority.

Mariana - we need to be involved right from the beginning

5.10. Gerrard Albert

Gerard acknowledges that Regional Councils exist but we do not accept them. They create huge difficulties for us because of their processes of marginalisation and their application of legislation under which they operate. Māori issues cover all aspects of sustainability.

Yet, by the time our 'cultural' values are considered, other stakeholders have already positioned themselves. Unless we are given the opportunity to impart our values from the outset, then often it is a waste of our time. The Resource Management Act has always provided the opportunity for Māori to participate at planning level, but it never happens because there is no willingness, we have no political weight. So we are shut out, and we become one voice amongst any other constituencies. For similar reasons, there are huge difficulties with the concept of national policy statements being applied by Regional Councils. There should be more direction from Central Government to Regional Councils, and for thresholds to be set.

We are seeking a pathway that involves our values from the outset, and then look at other aspects of quadruple bottom line.

We may be a minority numerically but in terms of resource management, we always have our say, and we are an important participant.

For these reasons, we have trouble buying in to this process.

He also noted that he has not had a good chance to go over the proposals in order to make submissions.

5.11. Manu Metekingi

You have seen that our people are passionate and we are not frightened to show our passion. We are not willing to be just participants. We have the biggest catchment area, and we still control the bulk of land in the catchment area.

Māoridom and our relationships are still alive and well.

5.12. Heemi Takarangi

Arikarika nga korero i te ra nei i te mea, ko te Kāwanatanga, koia te ngārara. We have been polite today, this is important in terms of manaaki tangata, (caring for people) but it is difficult to balance manaaki tangata with orchestrated manipulated scenarios, and this proposal/presentation is one of those scenarios.

We are people with a history of having changed the government's approach with our occupation of Pākaitore.

This resource supposedly belongs to everybody, but it is managed and operated by the government. With our future generations in mind, we need to be careful what we agree to.

6. Summary and Conclusion

Dougal and Rebecca acknowledged the points made about consultation, poor land practices and the impact on the water and food sources, and issues relating to Genesis, and confirmed that these messages will be relayed to the Ministries.

George Ria: acknowledges and supports the feelings that have been expressed today, and notes some of the good achievements for Māori that have been gained over time (eg advances in Te Reo and Treaty references in legislation) because we have continued to fight for them. The korero is valued, and he will do his best to try and promote some of the values expressed today.

 

12.45pm Closing kōrero and karakia.

Last updated: 25 November 2008