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Waitara hui

31 January 2005

1. Introductions

Sue Powell, Livia Hollins (Ministry for Environment); George Ria, Rebecca Martel (Ministry of Agriculture & Forestry); Suzanne Doig (Te Puni Kōkiri); Matthew Hall (Ministry for Economic Development); Willie and Linda Te Aho (Facilitator and minute secretary - Indigenous Corporate Solutions Limited).

2. Introductions of those in attendance

3. Willie Te Aho explained the process for the hui.

4. Presentation (Sue Powell - Ministry for the Environment)

4.1 Background

  • This programme has involved a cross-Government team, several diverse government departments have come together
  • The aim of this programme is to improve water management, how to look after streams and rivers and how to protect them
  • This hui is for us to come and obtain feedback from you
  • Following all consultation hui and public meetings, several reports will go back to government, and one of them will be the report from the various hui, closing date for submissions is March 18 th
  • Some of the preliminary ideas were tested with
    • A general stakeholders group (eg fish and game, forest and bird federated farmers, FOMA, energy companies); and
    • A Māori Reference Group -: Heitia Hiha, Waaka Vercoe, Paul Morgan, Jane West, Gail Tipa - their contribution has been valuable
  • This programme focuses on rural issues, it does not address the urban water supply, nor does it address marine issues but we acknowledge the importance of those issues.

4.2 The two main issues are:

  • Water quality is declining -
    • Examples of high profile cases eg Rotorua, Taupo
  • Allocation - involves taking of water, as well as issues around how much water should remain in rivers.

There is also another issue that we will be addressing: Water bodies of National Importance. To date, the Government has been reactive to major problems, what are other nationally significant water bodies that the government can step in and provide assistance with - as it has in Taupo and Rotorua. What is the role of Central role in this issue?

4.3 Possible Solutions - Ideas for a new approach?

(a) Providing National Direction

Some ideas are:

  • To make use of RMA provisions for national policy statements (eg coastal policy) and national environmental standards (eg around air quality standards for health) - this would allow priorities for water management and environmental bottom lines to be set up front - eg how much water should stay in a lake or river; should more be done with water conservation orders?
  • How to identify priorities - Government targeting where it gets more directly involved in water management -identifying the 'nationally important' water bodies - eg water quality in Rotorua Lakes - maybe government should be involved earlier.

(b) Central Government could become more involved

Such as in getting together to make submissions on regional plans, in developing best practice information and sharing around that information, funding for councils, use more pilot programmes (eg local projects and solutions that are already established)

(c) Working together

  • How can all different sectors come together to address some of the problems
  • Raising awareness - education -
  • Building relationships with Māori
  • Pilot programmes eg Lake Taupo (cooperative approach), sharing information

(d) Providing more tools for regional councils

  • We are asking a number of questions around whether we have enough tools to deal with some of the problems we have identified.
  • Should there be a system of comparing and prioritising consents (rather than looking at applications in isolation) should there be some kind of auctioning and tendering of water where there are competing applications?
  • Should it be easier to transfer water permits and consents - if some users have more water than they need?
  • Local Government prepares plans - local authorities could be required to prepare a plan concerning 'big' issues relating to water.
  • Should there be more tools to allow councils to reduce the taking to address issues of over allocation and water quality - is it something we need to look at?

5. Discussion and comments from hui

5.1 David Doorbar

Our hapū (Otaraua) and other hapū of this rohe have been banging heads with the Government for a long time, and ka puta mai te riri (anger is expressed).

For a long time we have been saying the water is precious to us, and for a long time we have been told 'thanks for your consultation'.

David commented about the actions of the regional council and the council's culpability in terms of the resource consents that they have granted over the years - research should be done on cumulative effect these have had on our waters. The Regional council calls us tangata whenua but there has not been real participation. Māori views are continually sidelined, in the Environment Courts, and in councils. He is glad that this team has come for consultation

We obtain piarau (lamprey eel) from the river, the river is wāhi tapu, the intensive farming, and the chemicals come straight through to our waters, into our food and then in to us.

This consultation is good news and bad news; the bad news is that the environment is in this state. The good news is that the government has come to listen. One of the biggest hassles that iwi have had to deal with over the years is meaningless consultation processes.

Yes, water is scarce, and Māori concerns about water will be overridden by industry concerns, this is the reality with the Taranaki Regional Council.

We suffer from hui fatigue, and our hapū is not well resourced to deal with these issues.

5.2 Grant Knuckey

One of the most pressing issues is consultation and the need for the Government to resource hapū properly because they receive nothing from the Taranaki Regional Council.

Whakapapa begins on top of the mountain and we believe that this resource belongs to us, Pakeha have not bought it, but they tell us how it will be managed - he wonders why Government has come to talk to iwi hapū.

It is a difficult task to put together submissions - Grant calls for a national hui for Māori to get together to discuss these issues so they can put together a submission that will change central government thinking. He is concerned that by the end of the hui, their views from this hui will be forgotten. Another concern is who (of tangata whenua) will follow these issues up? Māori do not have the resources and not enough people to provide substantive responses to government policies.

He notes that the Waitangi Tribunal Report Wai 6 - sets out their whakaaro on water more fully.

He calls for a 'decent' Māori unit in the Ministry for the Environment to be put together to discuss these issues, and to develop and write up their own management plan, we get tired of repeating ourselves to Pākehā groups who continue to sideline us.

In terms of the national direction - central government have never done anything for us. Government has not engaged over oil, and resource management issues out at sea. We are being asked to do things that we are too thin on the ground for, we do not have infrastructure. Lawyers are expensive.

The talk of "working together" is merely lip service. We have particular ways that we want to be represented. What we say about the Resource Management Act is not a lot different and an annual hui for Māori on these issues is important.

We are concerned about our water, we believe we own it, we know the Crown disagrees. We don't want to go through Regional Council - they divide and rule. Our elected representative on the Regional Council got elected because of Pakeha support for Wai 6. There are issues about decision-making ability. New Plymouth District Council has taken a long time to establish consultation groups, but no strong direction from management on those groups. Taranaki has spent millions on rugby union but provided no resources for tangata whenua management plans because we don't have enough votes.

5.3 Peter White

Spoke of his growing up and in his youth gathering as many mussels as possible - but they are disappearing, in terms of the quality of water - we always knew that if the river is rested, it will heal itself. This is not happening.

He recalled times when young and sound asleep he would be woken up, his mother might have had a bad dream and the children would be sprinkled with water. Water is used for our spiritual as well as physical cleansing.

Spraying fertiliser on the ground poisons the river, the rubbish from the meatworks was discharged to the water, the river used to be alive with fish. It was common to see bushels of lamprey for a hui, now you are lucky to see them.

We are powerless. This process seems to be a hundred years too late.

5.4 Ira Tamati-Aubrey

Ira attended a pūtaiao (Māori Science) course at Te Wananga o Raukawa and learned about water testing, and sees this as a whanau hapū iwi concern.

Government should provide pūtea so that we may send our people to attend university to study Māori science and learn the technical side. Water is tapu, we put it into our bodies which are tapu. In our Māori world view, everything has a spirit, including trees, Tāne Mahuta, and water. Pakeha have a different world view which revolves around money.

We seem to say the same thing when government comes; it is repetitious.

5.5 Jack Knuckey

Jack recalled that as a young boy, he gathered mussels from the mussel reefs on both sides of the mouth of the Waitara River. But the rivers became polluted, and even though the works have gone, and the river 'cleaned up' the reefs (Orapa and Taiawa) have not recovered, so there must be something, maybe chemicals from up the river continuing to pollute.

5.6 David Doorbar

We are powerless spectators that watch what is going on. For a long time we have been saying that what is happening to the water is not good. When the works closed down, the river changed colour, but it is still polluted, you cannot serve manuhiri with kai from the river.

5.7 Grant Knuckey

During the time of 'Think Big' a lot of water has been pumped out of the sites (including ground water), our resource is very important. We have worked with Taranaki Regional Council and know about the catchment information, but have not been able to engage with the Taranaki Regional Council. Participation rates have been minimal.

The Government needs to provide more tools in legislation to give us the right to participate. Resourcing (or the lack of resources) is a major issue.

5.8 David Doorbar

The Māori Liaison officer position in the Taranaki Regional Council has not been filled for a long time and similar positions have not been effective.

5.9 Grant Knuckey

When we, Māori, have made submissions we have been labelled as devious and cunning and unwilling to help. The focus is on attacking the messenger rather than addressing the message.

5.10 David Doorbar

Taranaki Regional Council colludes with applicants - it is the last bastion of institutional racism in our rohe. Māori are treated like a speedbump to be overcome

5.11 Grant Knuckey

Taranaki Regional Council has used non-notified application processes for the sea and as a result, iwi missed the opportunity to participate in the process. When Māori ask for resources to participate more fully they are treated like 'highwaymen' trying to extract fees.

5.12 Aroha Chamberlain

Confirmed that the relationship between Taranaki Regional Council and mana whenua is lacking considerably as this has been raised in a number of hui. Aroha works for the New Plymouth District Council.

Central Government must first work out the Treaty Relationship (ownership/management) of freshwater, as this was a resource used by mana whenua when the treaty was signed. Until that is sorted out local government will assume that they can go ahead and manage this resource without involving mana whenua.

The Local Government Act (LGA) however does now have some important clauses in relation to mana whenua and the effect of these will be seen in time. Mana whenua should be involved every step of the way in terms of the decision making of this resource by local government.

The Ministry for the Environment could set up a National Body of Māori, mana whenua representatives who could look at and discuss issues in a holistic way and then take around the rohe for agreement rather than just going around the rohe which may provide a disjointed view.

5.13 Eva Eriwata

"Kei te mamae te ngākau i te kōrero i tēnei ra" (her heart hurts hearing the issues being discussed today). She agrees that many of the things said today are repetitive. And notes that she was offended by the term 'enhance' in terms of 'Enhancing Māori participation', what is meant by this? Sue apologised for any offence caused.

Tangata whenua are still not being listened to, and hopes this message is taken away today.

5.14 He Kuia anō

Another kuia (who wishes not to be named) hopes that from today we will work together. We have not been fortunate to go to university but what we have in our hearts is more important because we care.

5.15 David Doobar

The date of submissions closing, March 18 th, is the same as the date of a significant battle of this region.

The other day he went out eeling. It was clear by the smell and taste that the water is polluted. Certain weeds multiply because of the fertilisers. Nobody knows more than the kai gatherers that the 'clean, green, image' is a farce.

Many of the people in the rohe, including beneficiaries, gather their kai from the river.

5.16 Grant Knuckey

Quality of engagement is important to us, resources should be provided so that we can participate properly, and articulate the vision of the people who are speaking today. We want to preserve our heritage and our environment.

5.17 Ira Tamati - Aubrey

We need to have better control of our waterways. Ira shared a story about a group of tangata whenua who have been fighting for their lake for 50 years.

5.18 He Kuia

Wanted to share a positive story about how we are doing some good things and working together in this area.

5.19 David Doorbar

The Treaty protects our resources and yet how is it that they have not been protected? What outcomes can we expect from this?

Sue: The outcomes we are wanting are to learn about how we might manage conflicts in values and how to achieve water quality outcomes. We have heard your concerns strongly today. The minutes of these hui will be fed back directly to Ministers. We also promise that feedback will be posted to our website.

5.20 Grant Knuckey

Is there a management team who will manage submissions from Māori? In the current political environment the government does not wish to be seen 'privileging' Māori.

Sue: Linda is collating all minutes of hui - so there will be one reference point for the collection of minutes.

5.21 Grant Knuckey

The key issues are participation, and the need for the legislated ability to do that, that tangata whenua be recognised for the contribution they can make to the management of the quality of the water, we want to help the community win.

5.22 Peter White

Is there any information about comparisons of rivers?

Sue - we don't have a lot of comparison information - but we do know our lakes and rivers are in trouble.

5.23 Aroha Chamberlain

The proposed changes to the Resource Management Act are going to make it more difficult for tangata whenua to have their input, again mana whenua will be marginalised, and this point needs to be noted.

5.24 Pereni (Belle) Tupe

Pereni shared a story about eels in a certain pond that cannot be eaten. Apparently the water contains run-off and the water comes through the rest of the system. She is a part of the Methanex committee and needs to be better informed on issues.

6. Summary and Conclusion

6.1 Wille Te Aho

Willie acknowledged Grant Knuckey and his work from the time of the Town and Country Planning Act 1977 in the past decades through to today, and acknowledged the iwi who have taken their issues to the Waitangi Tribunal. Our generation and future generations have learned and benefited from their efforts.

6.2 Sue Powell

Sue recapped the presentation by first acknowledging the powerful sense of frustration and scepticism expressed at the hui.

6.3 Key points on reflection

  • There is concern about the way the regional council is operating, the status of tangata whenua and the process and participation and the Taranaki Regional Council acting as gatekeepers
  • There is a need for training and for resourcing - this work (consultation, making submissions) falls on a small number of people
  • The impacts on water and the state of water - things are not right in terms of certain species
  • The value of water
  • Wai 6 contains valuable information that has already been collated 20 years ago and that information needs to be brought into this process.
  • There are concerns about the consultation and submission processes - Sue posed the question: How can we do this better? How do we break the mould?

6.4 George Ria

He orite ngā kōrero i konei ki a mātou i Tūranganui. (The stories we have heard today here are similar to our stories in the Gisborne area).

In terms of Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry, George looks forward to better management processes that ensures that issues around Māori are actually dealt with.

He noted too that many Māori are farmers and responsible too for some of the discharge, and so there are a number of issues that need to be balanced.

George expanded upon some of the comments made about the Local Government Act, and confirmed his understanding that the Local Government Act has some key specific clauses that require local government to work with Māori.

The mamae (hurt) that we have heard today will be similar to that which we will undoubtedly hear around the country, and we will be feeding this back to the Ministers.

Closing karakia - 12.55pm.

Last updated: 25 November 2008