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Nelson hui

7 February 2005

1. Karakia/ Mihimihi (Barney Thomas).

2. Introductions

Mike Jebson, Rebecca Martel, George Ria, Chas Perry, Maryanne Chiu (Ministry of Agriculture & Forestry); Suzanne Doig (Te Puni Kōkiri); Livia Hollins (Ministry for the Environment); Richard Hawke (Ministry of Economic Development); Willie and Linda Te Aho (Facilitator and minute secretary - Indigenous Corporate Solutions Limited).

3. Introductions of those in attendance

4. Presentation (Mike Jebson)

4.1 Background -

  • Explanation of which freshwater bodies are being focused upon in this programme of action,
  • Mike gave a background of his own experience of declining water quality in the streams he enjoyed during his own upbringing
  • The importance of freshwater
  • Water Programme of Action - How we can manage our water programme better?
    • Have we got the problems right?
    • We have some preliminary ideas for solutions and this consultation round is to gain views about these ideas - we are here to listen to your views
    • Explanation of 'stakeholder groups' who were consulted to bounce very early ideas around with eg Māori Reference Group

4.2 The range of issues fall into three main issues:

  • Allocation - taking of water
    • Wasteful use of water - we need to recognise the value of water
  • Water quality - declining
    • Reflection of intensification of agriculture, conversion from sheep to beef, increase in use of nitrate fertiliser over the last 10 years, cumulative impacts of farming in some sensitive catchments over many years which is now becoming evident (eg Taupo)
  • Nationally important water bodies

4.3 Possible Solutions - Ideas for a new approach?

Note: These are early ideas and this is proper consultation in that we really need to hear some feedback on these ideas and any other ideas.

(a) Providing National Direction

Some ideas are to make use of RMA provisions for national policy statements and national environmental standards (currently there are none); Government targeting where it gets involved - identifying the 'nationally important' rivers, lakes and wetlands - eg Government has already become involved in issues around Lake Rotorua, Rotoiti and Taupo (an example of an 'iconic' lake - both regionally and nationally)

(b) Central Government could become more involved

Eg developing best practice information and sharing around, funding, pilot programmes

(c) Working together

Raise awareness, build relationship with Māori in terms of water management because of key cultural dimension

Suzanne Doig - One action identified in the discussion booklet is 'Enhancing Māori participation', we are looking to clarify issues around Māori participation in Local Government - One possible solution is for Central Government to make it clearer what Local Government has to do in terms of consultation with Māori; more widely, Central Government is looking to provide guidance for better engagement on a much wider range of issues (ie not just about water).

Some of the themes that have emerged from hui so far is the poor performance of some councils and also capacity and capability issues for both iwi and for councils - should there be resourcing and training to enable Māori to participate better, and to develop iwi management plans? Are there other ideas?

(d) Provide more tools

There are problems with the current 'first in first served process' through this process, the Government wants to explore Market mechanisms, eg auctions and tenders, transfers of consents and discharge permits

5. Discussion

5.1 Barney Thomas

Thanks for holding the hui here, this is a good opportunity for us to have a say.

There are some front doors missing, there is no TPK office in Nelson here, and no Ministry of Economic Development office. We want to engage with these government departments - but they are not based here and they are not accessible. This needs to be addressed.

We get a lot of letters from Ministry of Economic Development, but we have seen one person in the last 10 years. That is not consultation.

There are only a few of us here, but we represent thousands.

This is a treaty issue at the end of the day. Under Article 2 the Crown is to protect water, forests and sea, and they haven't done it. For 164 years, especially in Nelson, we have been down this road many times, the over allocation of lands, we have seen the land take, the seabed take and now we are getting to water.

We have not got enough water now. The demand is growing with more and more people coming here. The infrastructure is not meeting demand. Even though we raise these issues with councils, ultimately it is a Crown responsibility.

Gravel extraction - millions of tonnes of gravel are taken out of our waterways, this needs to be addressed, as extraction affects our water.

Iwi are not merely another interest group. Farmers, Fish and Game etc are represented by Crown. Iwi are the other Treaty partner, so we should not be put in with the other 'interest groups'.

There are many proposals happening within this rohe such as the Wairau hydro proposal and the Waimea augmentation issue this includes hydro as well.

Farmlands are now being subdivided, and there are a huge number of applications for dams already. In some cases the dams are already established - and then the applicants apply to council for a resource consent.

There is an issue of equality - Council or Crown on one side of the room - they can come any time of the day - and everyone from the Crown/Council is getting paid. On the Iwi side it is all koha (giving up their day's wages). Our people should be resourced properly to participate in accordance with the Treaty.

One thing that we have pushed for and that is happening now is the fencing off wetlands to keep stock out.

Our role as Tangata Whenua encompasses Kaitiaki, Manaakitanga and Mātauranga - if something is out of kilter the balance will be affected

Barney is surprised that there is no hui in Marlborough (given the impacts of the vineyards on water). There is no representation from Marlborough in this hui.

Infrastructure - eg sewerage - the infrastructure cannot cope with the increasing demand

Subdivision is commercially driven and too many people are living for today and not for tomorrow.

The review of the RMA will mean that it is watered down with respect to Māori and Māori participation will be affected.

There are proposals for water from Motueka to be transported to Nelson. This is wrong. Mauri should be retained within rohe, keep water within its catchment.

We have an iwi management plan put together with Council, but there is no plan for Tasman.

I am not in favour of tendering the use of water: the rich man he gets richer, and the poor man, he stays poor.

There are huge problems, but they need to be addressed. Instead of ensuring the land and all resources handed down to us are there for our future generations, the decision makers are allocating more than what they have got. Planners and decision makers must realise that. At some stage those decisions must involve iwi. Iwi must have input.

We have no representatives on either of the two councils here. Once decisions are made, we are then told what the decision is.

In this rohe, kōtuku are paramount. What comes out of the river will end in the estuary. The sign of the kōtuku is that the environment is healthy. If the kōtuku does not appear, we are all in trouble.

(Barney apologies that he had to leave the hui at approximately 12.10pm)

5.2 Marlin Elkington

Marlin supports Barney's kōrero

Treaty of Waitangi - Marlin could not find a reference to the Treaty in the booklet, and so as far as he is concerned, this is not consultation.

There is a difference between stakeholder and 'right holder'. We are right holders. He could find no reference of right holders in the discussion document. And therefore he does not have the time to read a booklet that is not relevant to us. Marlin does not see this as valid consultation.

As far as submissions go, we don't have time, resources and so on to put together a submission. You can take what the people say today as our submission as we have other pressing issues and don't have the time to make a separate submission.

Every single waterway is significant and valid to this region.

It is good to have the opportunity to air some of our concerns about these processes.

5.3 Ratapu Hippolite

In terms of 'mountains to the sea' we believe in 'heavens to the sea'. Every single waterway is important and vital to us.

Prior to this hui, I said that every bit of rainwater that hits our rooves should be used again - not be wasted. Too much stormwater runs off houses through drains straight into the sea.

What happens to the water that the farmers pay for to irrigate his farm? It goes back into the ground and into the waterways. Do the farmers have to pay disposal rights? Maybe that is why the water is disposed in that way - to save the farmer money.

Is it only going to be when big businesses are involved and tourists that the Government becomes involved (eg Taupo), what about what locals deem to be important. Irrespective of the tourism potential, the decision makers should be listening to us.

We don't feel included in the document - only then will we consult.

5.4 Edward Chambers

Edward supported the other speakers.

Spoke of Tasman District Council (TDC) processes of allocating water rights that have not been sustainable. Recently, at a TDC meeting water right holders had to reduce their rights by 20% due to over allocation.

Out of 51 stretches of water in the region, only 1 is safe to drink and 10 safe to swim in.

75 thousand litres of 'waste' goes out into our estuary every day.

The Council's own research shows that it is unsafe to eat shellfish, and in some areas it is unsafe to swim. The council continues to do nothing. Will it take a rich tourist to come to our area and become sick by swallowing a mouthful of water before anything is done? Nelson is marketed as a tourist destination.

Wetlands being currently proposed are going to be far too small, and the plants proposed will be contaminated.

Some commercial operations are located near contaminated sites.

The solution for this is to stop all direct discharges of wastewater to fresh water systems. Land based treatment and ensuring quality water is discharged to fresh water systems must happen for the benefit of our future generations.

5.5 Melanie McGregor

Papatūānuku still provides for us. Recycling is a good solution from washing machines, and the use of water tanks etc.

5.6 Ratapu Hippolite

Detergents are a problem eg Mississippi. Prior to soap suds going into the Mississippi, the water was drinkable. We need organic soaps that will break down and not pollute our fresh water. Do we have to have an outbreak before we really address this problem?

We have to treat these issues with appropriate concern now.

5.7 Ani Parata

15 years ago, National Geographic warned about some of these issues. Ani is aware that the Waikanae river water quality is badly declining.

One of the flaws in the discussion document is that the first action should be enhancing Māori participation (not the 10th action). This would help alleviate many of the problems - we have a passion for the water - our health our wellbeing all of our philosophies are to safeguard and protect the water. If we have a say, everyone benefits - we have everybody's interests at heart.

Ani listened to the mamae (hurt/frustration) of the iwi here during treaty claims regarding the springs in Golden Bay. They have not been heard to the extent that they should have been.

Councils are not respecting what iwi have to say about those springs. Iwi have been stripped of their mana in terms of caring for those springs.

Will councils listen? Economics seem more important to them. Again, with respect to the Treaty of Waitangi, Māori need to have the power to protect their taonga (water) as guaranteed by Article 2.

Education about conserving water, and about recycling of water is needed. It is too easy to turn on a tap for this generation. We can't keep taking water like this.

Biggest pollution is water - sewerage systems.

Māori can lead NZ to a place where we would all benefit.

5.8 Ratapu Hippolite

First in first served - will this remain?

Mike - solution identified and some options around that.

Ratapu - first in first served doesn't work. How is it administered?

Response - explanation about current RMA processes, but what is proposed, is to look at alternatives to this approach.

Ratapu - Mussel farming were supposed to be handled this way but we know that even though we were first in, we were not served. It is the people making the decisions who are a part of the problem as well.

5.9 Melanie McGregor

Me manaaki to tātou nei whenua Papatūānuku.

We continue to take from her (Papatūānuku) and we are not giving back, we need to replenish Papatūānuku. I support all of the kōrero today.

5.10 Judi Billens

Would like to see water recycled in some way, supply will never keep going the way we are using water.

5.11 Suzanne Doig

Barney mentioned that iwi/hapū have no role in councils. What sorts of things might need to happen to address this?

Response: TPK should facilitate a hui on that topic - it is a huge debate.

6. Summary and Conclusion

6.1 Common Themes (Mike Jebson)

  • Everyone is passionate about water, and water is not being respected in this region - too much is being wasted, and there are too many contaminants being discharged into our system. We must do something to correct that abuse.
  • Treaty of Waitangi and water management - Māori are kaitiaki and therefore must be at the forefront of the debate so they are heard clearly
  • Future needs must be addressed
  • Government's face not being here often enough - MAF has a Nelson face, but the criticism is heard.
  • Strong criticism that the Crown is not fulfilling its responsibilities under the Treaty and needs to lift its game
  • Acknowledges the many proposals (for hydro etc) in the region

6.2 George Ria

'Ko te pūtea' - George spoke about the difficulties that arise when pūtea or commercial drivers are given priority.

On the topic of Government consultation and decision-making processes - these issues take time to resolve.

Told a story about discharge into a pond in his home area, while technically the water coming out the other end was 'cleaner', in Māori terms, it is tapu. We have concepts in the Māori world for cleansing, and for more appropriate filtering systems and recycling.

We must look after Papatūānuku eg we de-robed her in Gisborne and we suffered one of the largest landslides.

There are difficulties in working inside Government - but George is here to try and achieve something meaningful for Māori and the government. As a team, our challenge is how we can best articulate these issues to our Ministers who are the ultimate decision makers.

Marlin Elkington

We appreciate the chance for you to take our words and turn them into action; we appreciate the difficulties of working within Government.

Closing kōrero and karakia 1pm - Marlin Elkington

Last updated: 25 November 2008