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Kaitaia hui

14 February 2005

1. Karakia/Mihimihi (John Matthews)

2. Introductions

Paul Reynolds, Rebecca Martel, George Ria, (Ministry of Agriculture & Forestry); Suzanne Doig (Te Puni Kōkiri); Livia Hollins (Ministry for the Environment); Willie and Linda Te Aho (Facilitator and minute secretary - Indigenous Corporate Solutions Limited).

3. Introductions of those in attendance

4. Presentation (Paul Reynolds)

4.1 Background

  • The purpose of this enterprise is to improve water management in our country, this is a complex and difficult area to work with - there are different streams, cultural, economic, social and environmental and some times they compete with each other
  • Water is the lifeblood of our community - we drink it, we eat from it, we make money from the use of it, we swim in it - so the management of it is vital
  • Officials from right across government have been involved in the thinking so far - and it must be emphasised that these are initial thoughts - this is the beginning of the work and we are asking for your feedback
  • Two reference groups have been involved in the initial stages - stakeholder interest group and a Māori reference group (this is not a consultative or representative group - it is there to provide advice)

4.2 The programme involves work in three areas

  • Water quality is declining -
    • Examples - Lake Taupo, Lake Rotorua, Lake Rotoiti - iconic waterways to New Zealanders
    • Intensification of agriculture has an impact, more fertiliser is being used, more stock
    • There are places where we know it is no longer safe to swim, mahinga kai are affected and the mauri is affected.
  • Allocation - there isn't enough water to go around - demand is not going to decrease
    • How much to allow to be used for different purposes, how much should remain in waterways
    • Wasteful use of the resource
  • Water bodies of national importance - important for a number of reasons
    • When should Central Government get involved? - often Central Government is reactive and perhaps could be more proactive, what are the priorities?

4.3 Possible Solutions - Ideas for a new approach? (Rebecca Martel)

(a) Providing National Direction

Some ideas are:

  • Water management is largely the responsibility of district and regional councils, but there is scope for central government to become involved via the Resource Management Act provisions for national policy statements and national environmental standards - this would allow priorities for water management and environmental bottom lines to be set up front - eg how much water should stay in a lake or river (currently there no national policies or standards);
  • Government targeting where it gets more directly involved in water management - identifying the 'nationally important' water bodies

(b) Central Government could become more involved in local issues - developing best practice information and sharing around information, funding - is this a barrier to councils and iwi? Pilot programmes, by making submissions on regional plans

(c) Working together

  • Raising awareness of the importance and scarcity of water and education about water quality problems
  • Building relationships with Māori

Suzanne Doig (TPK) spoke on the issue of "enhancing Māori participation"

One of the proposals in the discussion document is to provide guidance for better engagement with Māori - not just on water issues, but more broadly. Two main issues that have arisen during the RMA review process and earlier hui on the Water Programme of Action are:

  • Poor relationships in many areas between councils and iwi/hapū, and
  • capacity and capability issues.

Rebecca continued with the presentation:

  • Pilot programmes eg Lake Taupo (cooperative approach), sharing information

(d) Providing more tools

  • Current first in first served might not be appropriate anymore. The discussion booklet sets out some ideas around auctioning and tendering of water.
  • Transfer of consents and discharge permits
  • Local Government prepares plans - local authorities could be required to prepare a plan concerning water issues.

5. Discussion

5.1 Will Stensness (Ngāpuhi Taumata Kaumatua)

  • Will is here from the Hokianga
  • Will provided containers of water samples - 'this is my monitoring - this is what we deal with everyday - take some for John Carter to drink'
  • Wanted to talk to Marian Hobbs, she is the organ grinder - it is disgusting that we have such a major problem and the Minister does not front up - I hold her responsible for misappropriation of funding for 13 years - the funding is not being used in the right places to actually benefit our waterways
  • 95% of our waterways in the Hokianga are polluted - this includes Lake Omapere, and 95% of all water in New Zealand is polluted
  • We have been battling with the council for years and we have got nowhere
  • Limited funding has been provided from council to assist with our efforts - we do things voluntarily including the establishment of our youth groups to plant water ways
  • I do not trust the council to do anything - we do not feel safe working with them, they are a band of crooks
  • Toxins and tutae continue to be discharged into the Hokianga, if we stopped today, it would take seven years for it to come out of the kaimoana
  • It is unsafe to swim in these water ways
  • We don't want to keep talking about this issue, we want action - Ngāpuhi Kaumatua want some action. I am sure that we will sit here tonight, our kōrero will be recorded and it will go onto another shelf - to be ignored
  • We have set up programmes in our harbour with no funding, while officials in Wellington are earning fat pay packets and continue to do nothing
  • Has attended international conferences in Colorado - this is a global problem - but we will not give up
  • In some places the RMA is being enforced, not here - dead cows in the waterway, and yet the so-called 'caretakers' for our land, air and water do nothing
  • Every farmer in this country that allows our water ways to be polluted is in breach of the RMA
  • We wanted to take tourists down our river, and we have ended up being environmentalists because the water quality is getting worse and worse
  • I am angry, I have been dealing with these issues for too many years, I don't want payment, I want clean water from which I can eat oysters with my mokopuna
  • The RMA was put in place, it is a beautiful document - but it is not being implemented
  • If this is supposed to be a hui to consult with Māori, then it should have been held on a marae, and it should have been advertised as such, then more of Will's kaumatua could have been present to give their valuable input. There is no wairua in a community hall, and there is no tikanga present. There seems to be a misunderstanding in the community that this was a public hui (not a consultation hui for Māori), and that Marian Hobbs would be attending.

5.2 Mike Wilson

  • Provided further water samples in drinking bottles from different waterways such as Parapara (Taipa) and Coopers Beach
  • Our waterways are not suitable for swimming
  • I have a petition of 170 signatures regarding roading and the discharge of effluent
  • Some farmers are discharging illegally, some have no effluent ponds and no effluent permits and they continue to discharge detergents and effluent into our waterways - I have been trying to introduce 'ecobags' sponsored by Fonterra and Federated Farmers - this would reduce the need for some fertilisers
  • Our council does not listen unless there are 50 of us - I am willing to do their job
  • Everything I do is voluntary, and I do because I want clean water for our future generations. However, if the resources were available then it should be used to support the work that we are doing to keep our environment clean

5.3 Andrea Panther

Andrea was part of team that brought some students from Ahipara School, our huge problem is our polluted river, our kids swim in it. We have had to become environmentalists.

I am not looking to blame the council, we all need to take responsibility - and many of us here do a lot of voluntary work. Why can't the council give us (the people who love the environment) the resources to turn it around?

The Fonterra plan for dairy farmers by 2012 will have 90 % of waterways fenced, why can't that law be taken on board for all farmers (not just dairy farmers). Farmers don't seem to realise the effects of their animals walking in the waterways?

5.4 Stephen Lloyd

  • Will has barely scratched on the problem
  • He has seen raw sewage being discharged directly into waterways (Kohukohu and Rawene)
  • We need to look at the whole overall picture, not just the water, from the springs, the tributary - and the effects of causeways
  • Mangonui harbour - very poor water quality
  • Many species have disappeared (eg parore, kohuru) due to poor water quality - fish like parore are sensitive to water quality
  • Council seems to be blind to illegal breaches of the RMA (no permits, no consents)
  • Natural wetlands have disappeared
  • The RMA is a great act, I agree with Will, but it has been bypassed
  • Filth is being discharged from forest block near Otangaroa Marae - forestry also causes serious siltation when blocks are harvested
  • Cockles in the 1940s and 50s - butterfish and other seasonal fish cease to exist simply because of poor quality of the biggest river (Oruaiti) into the smallest harbour
  • You come here from Wellington and tell us the submission closing date is in March - this issue is far more serious than that, we need more time, it is frustrating - and good people like Will might just give up.
  • Oruaiti River - along that river there are precious places to us that have the mangroves. Now the mud stinks - this is no good.
  • This is not just a Māori issue - what is good for Māori should be good for everyone
  • It is sad to see what has happened (to our water)
  • The river has been narrowed in the interests of saving money, so when it floods, sedimentation occurs, Mangrove crabs have disappeared
  • This is a global issue, a vast issue, a serious issue
  • What degree of responsibility of councils and government in asking 'where will the water come from?'

5.5 Jules Smith

Just been elected to Easter Community Board, and it makes me shrink when I hear the comments about councils

Three issues:

  1. Something as precious as water should have national direction, not saddled to local councils
    There needs to be national environmental standards. There needs to be national enforcement - regular audits of consent processes because the RMA is being interpreted differently
  2. I have 25 years of horticulture experience, where standards were enforced by marketers, eg Fonterra should be brought in on this.
  3. Most important, our responsibility - if we see something wrong, let us do something about it, let's put signs up ourselves - let us get more proactive.

5.6 Pat Tauroa (Whangaroa)

When Far North District Council is issuing permits it does so on a basis that is isolated, but cumulatively this causes problems. We need to ensure that councils look at whole area, not just one property.

There is also a problem with non-notified consents - the council is not required to let the community see the consents.

Pat is disappointed with the discussion document - because, once again, Government is making generic solutions for urban populations not realising that the rural sector has totally different needs - it does not appear to cater for those of us who are dealing with the tiko in the Hokianga Harbour

Why have we only got when one hui, when other areas have more hui?

The discussion document focuses upon allocation of a diminishing resource, it does not seem to give a lot of focus to the enhancement of the resource - that is more important than how much you are going to allocate to tourists on the Waimakariri River.

We need to put a moratorium on our waterways - that is where our Māori kai is - we need to retain our ability to gain our food sources this does not come under the heading of historic heritage.

5.7 Victor Senn (Dairy farmer)

  • There is a disparity in how councils are administering things
  • Bureaucracy involved with standards (eg injections for cows)
  • Here is another layer of government bureaucracy being set up - you should make the regional council do their job.
  • Floods - you should know that there is a flood control plan here - floods do more damage than a lot of other things
  • Other areas like Rotorua are different, what works there may not work here.

(Post Script: Following the distribution of minutes, Victor Senn posted a handwritten letter containing further comments. This letter is attached as Appendix A to these minutes).

5.8 Randal Stensness

  • We hold Marian Hobbs (Minister for the Environment) responsible and her councillors for what is going on - they are drawing wages to do the job, but they are not doing their job.
  • They are supposed to enforce the laws that are in place, here we are reviewing the Resource Management Act, when it is not being enforced (eg effluent being discharged directly into the river)
  • I have seen footage from 1973 that has solutions for addressing these problems - but they are still not being addressed.

5.9 Boy Yates

  • Congratulated Mike and Will and others on their submission
  • With regard to the bottles of water placed on the table - will they be analysed and the results put in the local paper? Or do we have to wait until the consultation process is completed?

George Ria responds: Similar issues arise in my home area in Gisborne, the council is having problems also with the sewage going out into the bay. Water was brought into us and tested, and it wasn't from the source claimed. So it is better for the appropriate people to accompany you and test the water. What we can do is put your invitation to test the water to those people who can carry out this request.

Boy Yates (continued)

  • Funding is needed for those who carry out work in the environment voluntarily, while our councillors and parliamentarians are overpaid.
  • I speak about a rural area that has marae and churches who draw water from above and contaminated by dusty roads. It is not practical for the council to tar seal all the dusty roads, but it is practical to seal the areas where there are marae (villages) and churches under s6(e) RMA. We have been told that this is a low priority - and we think it is racist. The Māori MPs must look at our submissions.

5.10 Terry Higginson

  • Concern about the idea of putting water up for tender. This will remove the use of water from those with limited resources.
  • No concern with transferring consents and discharge, but there will be major problems if money starts changing hands.
  • In the headwaters of the Awanui catchment where there are houses and businesses - most of the sewerage systems, etc are down on the flood plains and it ends up in our harbours. You cannot take oysters out of there. We must take some responsibility for that too.
  • Consent renewal - the discharge into Awanui River is not clean enough. No abatement notices have gone up. The water standard for waterways that are discharged into should be that the water is clean enough to drink.

5.11 Bryce Smith (Whakaminenga)

  • Acknowledges that this is a hui for Māori and it is good to see our Pākehā partners here too
  • Tangata whenua - indigenous people of Aotearoa - ka hiki te kara (a national flag was raised)
    • Bryce spent some time speaking about history, including what is known as 'Declaration of Independence' and Te Whakaminenga, Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and early legislation such as the Native Lands Act and Tohunga Suppression Act
    • Operating under a hapū system, waterways is one of our taonga
  • This hui should have been held on a marae according to our culture (Bryce invited the government to Waitangi Marae on behalf of the taumata kaumātua of Ngāpuhi, to talk with one another to discuss this issue - have no fear - the protestors are not from here, they are from the south),
  • This discussion document has no tikanga in it either and so I am not interested in it
  • Opposes the theft of paru waterways, and opposes the authority of local government and central government
  • Cites Declaration of Human Rights article 25
    • My people have been suppressed by pakeha kawana (pakeha governor) for generations, and this will continue for generations unless we do something now

5.12 Ron Lloyd (Mangonui)

  • It is obvious how important our waterways are by the range of people who have attended this hui
  • One of the most important things is social responsibility - that we have to one another, to the environment and to the natural resources
  • Issues relating to Commercial and customary fishing are linked - we activated a rahui and gained a lot of support
  • There is a reluctance to enforce the Resource Management Act - unsure why, whether it is an issue of funding or misinterpretation - and therefore I don't have faith in many of the government agencies out there, or community boards. Why don't they function properly? - this is why Central government must be involved - to ensure that the RMA is applied fairly
  • Development in Mangonui (Paewhenua) - we are now starting to experience the effects of uncontrolled development - regional government must determine its responsibility
  • Appreciates the opportunity to have a say - but the people are out on the marae and he welcomes the government to come to the marae to talk to the people

5.13 Rongo Benson (Te Rūnanga o Te Rarawa)

  • Runs Horticulture courses
  • Was not surprised that Marian Hobbs is not here (perhaps this was a carrot to lure us here), nor are any councillors
  • Everyone knows what is wrong - and when it comes to water samples, take one from out of the tap, it is supposed to be drinkable, we pay for it to be, and it is undrinkable.
  • The solutions are simple really -fence off the waterways, plant trees, stop poisoning the land - give us funding and we will do the job
  • On the issue of tendering the water - commercialism is the biggest threat to the environment at the moment - this should step back a little bit
  • The most important thing is for us to have good healthy water for us and for our Tamariki
  • We do not support pastoral irrigation - and there are problems with the first in first served process - there needs to be equality, if it is not sustainable, then don't have it.
  • Water is needed for gardens and orchards but where enterprises want to export etc, then they may need too much - is it sustainable?
  • Ahipara School has been working on a project for a long time to clean up its river
  • If this is a Māori consultation then it is in the wrong place - ask the iwi where they want to have it - on the other hand it is a good place if you want everyone to come

5.14 Tahi Morton (Northland Health)

Tahi put a 'health spin' on the discussion - what we do on our land is reflected in our streams. If our streams are healthy, then we are healthy. You can get sick from cow tiko - and Giardia is in our creeks - it is contagious and very hard to get rid of. Ecoli 0157 80% fatality - ruins kidneys - comes from cows and maybe from sheep as well. Over the last few years, it has come here with the moving of cattle to the North. This is not to mention the disease that come from human tiko.

(Post script: Tahi submitted a Proposed Northland Recreational Water Quality 5 Year Plan. This plan is attached to these minutes as Appendix B).

5.15 Ahipara School - principal, staff and students

The Wairoa River runs at the back of the school and was once enjoyed for rafting, swimming, and baptisms. Now it is unsafe to swim in. The school has set out on a project to clean up the river and acknowledges the community's support. The students are role models for their environmental work. All is not lost, there are some people trying to do something. There are people here who are angry, and passionate and this drives us. It has been great for our tamariki to hear what has been said tonight, and good to hear that this is such a huge issue.

Presentation from the Ahipara School Students regarding Wairoa River

  • Wairoa River was officially designated unsafe
  • However, the kids swam in the polluted river and got boils from Ecoli
  • Landowners lost land due to erosion
  • There is less whitebait now

Aim: to return the river to its natural state for families to enjoy in the future

Actions: education and upskilling for themselves on technical issues relating to water; planting native riparian strips; clearing noxious weeds; information sharing (television, radio, newsletter, website)

Future action: A billboard to raise awareness, nursery for future planting, environmental education introduced into school curriculum, bush walk to restore activities

Community project - catalyst for the community to come together to work on this project

Established a Landcare group (to source funding)

Results: Council is now committed to investigate a small river feeding into the Wairoa, and has already diverted a stream around a dump

Permission has been given to fence the other side of the river

5.16 John Kenderdine

  • How do people from Wellington feel when kids are doing their job?
  • Agrees that water is the life blood
  • The economy is a subsidiary to the environment not the other way around. I insist that the economy depends upon the environment and not the other way around, until we accept this, we will see the further degradation of our waterways
  • The water programme of action has been going a year or so now and it is sad that it has taken so long for consultation to take place, it seems that a lot of decisions have already been made
  • The language in the document 'enhancing, expanding' etc - no action - we know the answers, but nothing is being done
  • No mention in document of stormwater or collection of water in tanks - in Queensland you cannot build a house without a tank. We need to conserve water, collect water, and not waste it. These issues are not addressed at all, what is focussed on are economic factors.
  • National standards - one fear is that those standards will become the standard - people will settle for the lowest common denominator. Local Governments must have the ability to have higher standards

(John tabled a written submission on behalf of Petara Ngātaki who was unable to attend. This submission is attached to these minutes as Appendix C).

5.17 Wi Katana Popata

Wi started a waiata to support foregoing speakers.

Wi raised the issue of dusty roads around Oturu Marae - he urges the roads to be tarsealed, the refusal to do so is racist, if the council will not do it, allow someone else to do it.

A haka was performed to emphasise the importance of some of the kōrero.

5.18 Kaye McMillan

Tourism - tourist operators use the waterways - Four-wheel drive vehicles are driven through our waterways - this is increasing and there are no apparent controls about how some landowners/land users use their land and the rivers, streams and tributaries. The natural aquatic life (eg freshwater crayfish) within those waters is compromised.

5.19 Elsie Matich

  • We need water to live, we need fair allocation
  • Concerned that we are in a very narrow piece of the country if large amounts of water are taken out of the system, we could end up with salt in our system and we will not be able to function properly. We need to monitor, monitor and monitor. We need to know what is happening to our water supply so we can raise alarm. Regional council needs to monitor as well. Once something has happened, it is difficult to turn it backwards. There are more kinds of pollution than what we have heard about tonight - salt is a pollutant too.

5.20 Kristin Khaine

Why does NZ want to increase the population when there is not enough water?

5.21 Wendy Sporle

In identifying minimum flows in waterways - a conservative approach is essential - if we make decisions today we may realise that we have got it wrong

5.22 Jim Clark

The working party members are all associated with central government departments or programmes. The consultation process is directed at determining whether the local body authorities currently charged with fresh water resource management (under the Resource Management Act 1991) are best suited to continue this process or should central government become more involved. Would not the individual members of the working group (represented at the meeting) stand to benefit materially from greater central government involvement?

(The facilitator did not wish the question answered, but stated that the question would be included in the report.)

I am very concerned that the very people charged with making recommendations to government have a substantial conflict of interest because they have a vested interest in central government involvement. There does not appear to be any balance of representation in the working party from either local body representatives or other special interest groups.

I note that an integral part of the working party's brief is to find innovative ways to charge users for the water. By charging fees, the self-appointed central government agencies would create yet another government quango of dubious benefit and great expense. It would be good if the working party were to consider their circumstances and, should a conflict of interest be identified, excuse themselves from the party or, at least, appoint representatives to balance out the perceived self- interest. Otherwise the credibility of the report could be strongly contested by rural organisations such as Federated Farmers and NZ Fruit and Vegetables Growers.

5.23 Will Stensness

Will traversed the legislative history of the RMA 1991 - for 13 years, the council have been able to breach it, what is the government going to do about this? You have my contact details - I want to know the answers.

5.24 Stephen Lloyd

  • Discharge into Oruaiti - has witnessed laziness and blatant breaches of the RMA
  • There could be television advertisements (similar to those about speeding, and smoking) to raise awareness about environmental issues.

5.25 Victor Senn

NZ is high in rainfall, how much of it ends up in the sea?

5.26 Terry Higginson

Referred to recent water testing that resulted in water off a property was unsafe to drink due to Ecoli. He was told that 90% of waterways were polluted.

5.27 Randal Stensness

Question - why, when water is in such a terrible state, we cannot eat our traditional kai, is our regional council spending precious revenue on marine farming?

(People from the floor congratulated the facilitation of the hui).

6. Summary and Conclusion

6.1 Paul Reynolds - Reflection on major themes

  • There are major issues of capability and capacity and funding
  • Problems with consistency of the regional and district councils and the behaviour of some sectors (eg farmers)
  • A huge voluntary contribution is occurring in the community - and the question why this cannot be supported by council
  • Sustainability - the need for holistic point of view
  • Plentiful evidence of the degradation that is occurring in this area
  • Role of central government - diverse views
    • Response to the question regarding central government. It is not in the game to increase it budget but to do something about water
  • Enforcement and monitoring - Paul recommended that this needs to be teased out further in submissions
  • Public notification in consent process - needs to be transparent
  • Different needs in rural area (compared with urban area) - for those who will make submissions, the differences could be identified in more detail
    • Will Stensness - Will these submissions be ignored in the same way as the foreshore and seabed?
    • Paul - this is consultation at the start of the process rather than the end
    • Will - The words honesty and integrity should be seen somewhere
    • Paul acknowledged that there is a lack of trust with regard to the council
  • Water should be drinkable
  • There is a difficulty between economy and environment
  • The presentation of the school students was compelling
    • There was overwhelming support for the work and the presentation of the students - they need to be listened to.

6.2 George Ria - hei whakakapi i te hui (closed the hui with the following words)

  • We are many peoples walking one road.
    • This was a hui to consult with Māori. It is sad that the richness of the Māori world did not come out tonight though it was touched on slightly. Having said that, what was said was important, but the stories and tikanga of Māori did not flow.
    • George acknowledged the difficulty of Māori working in Government
  • Randal Stensness noted his view that it is far more difficult to be unemployed in the Far North, and doing this work to look after the environment voluntarily, as opposed to being a well-paid government official. He would swap places any day.
    • George is an uri of Te Kooti and he has lived and experienced the difficulties that many people have talked about tonight

Closing Karakia 9.30pm

Last updated: 25 November 2008